Photo by Sandy Millar
American husband and wife duo Bryan & Katie Torwalt began their careers in 2006. They released four albums and three EP’s, including:
- Here On Earth (2011)
- Kingdom Come (2013)
- Bryan & Katie Torwalt (2015)
- Champion (2016)
- Christmas (EP, 2017)
- Praise Before My Breakthrough (EP, 2018)
- Anticipation (EP, 2019)
Note to new users: This is a different kind of review site! Read About the Berean Test and Evaluation Criteria prior to reading this review.
1. What message does the song communicate?
Torwalt has experienced the Holy Spirit’s Presence, counting this as the most valuable relationship that exists. They ask God to increase their sensitivity to the Spirit’s leading.
Score: 10/10
2. How much of the lyrics line up with Scripture?
The entire song is consistent with God’s inspired Word.
Lyrics posted with permission.*
[Verse 1]
There’s nothing worth more
That will ever come close
Nothing can compare
You’re our living hope
All other things are counted as rubbish compared to knowing God (Philippians 3:8).
Your presence, Lord
That is, the Holy Spirit who lives inside of the Torwalt’s (Acts 6:5, Romans 8:9-11, 1 Corinthians 3:16, 1 Corinthians 6:16-19, Galatians 4:6, Ephesians 5:18, and 2 Timothy 1:14)
[Verse 2]
I’ve tasted and seen
Of the sweetest of love
Where my heart becomes free
And my shame is undone
Torwalt’s have experienced the love of God in that while they were sinners, Christ died for them (Romans 5:6-8), as well as the continual presence of the Holy Spirit who lives inside of them (see commentary on Verse 1, line 5).
Your presence, Lord
Repeats Verse 1, line 5.
[Chorus]
Holy Spirit, You are welcome here
Come flood this place and fill the atmosphere
Your glory, God, is what our hearts long for
To be overcome by Your presence, Lord
Your presence, Lord
This is not a statement against the omnipresence of God. Rather, it is a request for increased sensitivity of the Holy Spirit’s Presence. We do this by:
- Aligning our desire with God’s (Psalm 51:10, Jeremiah 24:7, Ezekiel 11:19, Ezekiel 36:26, Romans 2:29, Romans 12:2, 2 Corinthians 5:17, and 2 Corinthians 7:10).
- Studying Scripture (2 Timothy 2:15 and 2 Timothy 3:16-17).
- Obeying God’s commandments (Matthew 25:34-40, John 14:15, John 14:21-24, John 15:10-14, 1 Peter 1:14-15, 1 John 2:3-5, 1 John 4:19-20, 1 John 5:2-3, and 2 John 1:6).
- Spending time with God in prayer, alone just like Jesus did (Matthew 14:1-13, Matthew 26:29, Matthew 26:42, Mark 6:30-32, Mark 14:36, Luke 4:1-2, Luke 4:14-15, Luke 5:16, Luke 6:12-13, Luke 22:39-44, and John 18:11).
[Bridge]
Let us become more aware of Your presence
Let us experience the glory of Your goodness
This is evidence that my commentary in Chorus is correct.
Let us become more aware of Your presence
Let us experience the glory of Your goodness
Let us become more aware of Your presence
Let us experience the glory of Your goodness
Let us become more aware of Your presence
Let us experience the glory of Your goodness
Repeats lines 1 and 2.
Lord
God.
Score: 10/10
3. How would an outsider interpret the song?
Most will probably be familiar with the trinity and that the Holy Spirit is God. In terms of interpreting this song, that’s all they need to know to conclude that Christians welcome the “Holy Spirit” and desire to become more aware of His Presence, valuing Him.
Score: 10/10
4. What does this song glorify?
It glorifies the Holy Spirit in that we seek more of His Presence.
Score: 10/10
Closing Comments
Bryan & Katie Torwalt’s Holy Spirit is a wonderful song. I welcome this rare glimpse into the third person of the Trinity as the Torwalt’s explain His value, need for His Presence, and request for increased sensitivity, bringing glory to God. Most unbelievers should easily interpret its meaning.
I highly recommend this for corporate worship, especially since we don’t often sing about the Holy Spirit.
Final Score: 10/10
Artist Info
Track: Holy Spirit (listen to the song)
Artist: Bryan & Katie Torwalt
Album: Here On Earth
Genre: Contemporary Christian Music (CCM)
Release Year: 2011
Duration: 5:56
Agree? Disagree? Don’t be shy or have a cow! Calmly and politely state your case in a comment, below.
*Copyright © 2011 Jesus Culture Music (ASCAP) Capitol CMG Genesis (ASCAP) (adm. at CapitolCMGPublishing.com) All rights reserved. Used by permission.
Updates:
03/17/2021 – Updated per repetition announcement. Also, corrected Bryan’s name.
Comments
Kim
What are your thoughts on the repetitive chorus?
Vince Wright
Kim,
Great question! I think it’s well-balanced and spread out to avoid excessive repetition.
-Vince Wright
sharon
i don’t particularly care for the repetition in the bridge. when we sing it, we shorten by not doing the repeats. otherwise we love this song
Scott
My issue with this song lies in the chorus, particularly the line “Come flood this place and fill the atmosphere”
This is certainly not a Biblical idea. The Holy Spirit has many roles, but always indwells in the believer. There is zero support in the Bible that the Spirit “fills the atmosphere”. This is false teaching of the behavior of the Spirit. At Pentacost, a singular event in history, the outpouring of the Spirit did indeed “fill the whole house”.. But this was a unique event, never repeated again. The Holy Spirit has never again flooded a place and filled the atmosphere. So this is false teaching. I think the song should be docked a few points because of this line alone.
Thoughts?
Vince Wright
Scott,
Thank you for your challenge!
The reason why I believe in the “increased sensitivity” interpretation is because of the last few lines:
To be overcome by Your presence, Lord
Your presence, Lord
That’s essentially what occurred at Pentacost. It’s not like the Holy Spirit wasn’t present, then all of a sudden, He showed up. After all, the Holy Spirit is omnipresent (Psalm 139:7-10).
Also, Pentacost isn’t the only occurrence of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. It happened in Acts 4:31 and again in Acts 10:44-47, the latter with gentiles. There was a small instance in Acts 19:6-7, where twelve believers in Ephesus received the Holy Spirit and started speaking in tongues.
-Vince Wright
Scott
Thanks for the response Vince. Certainly Pentacost was a unique event. But the manifestation of the Holy Spirit before and after Pentacost is compeletely different. There are many examples in the OT of God’s Spirit dwelling in a place. A perfect example is when God’s Spirit dwelt in the Ark of the Covenant. After Pentacost though, the Spirit’s presence is always described as entering in and dwelling in the believer. Your examples in Acts also prove this… even though you could call these examples “outpouring” of the Spirit, the end result (after Pentacost) is that the Spirit entered the believers… it didn’t “fill a place or flood the atmosphere” like some sort of gaseous cloud. We know it’s the same Spirit that was present in Creation and that indwells believers today. But even though it’s nature is the same, it functions in different roles over time.
So this lyric is still very troubling to me.
I wonder if the writer’s of the song are bringing a particular interpretation from their background in Jesus Culture/Bethel Church. It would make sense, as the concept of the Spirit “flooding this place and filling the atmosphere” would align with some of Bethel Church’s teachings on how the Spirit manifests today(and which I would strongly disagree with).
Thank you for the work that you do. Your insights and other’s responses have been a great help to me and others at our church in helping to choose songs to sing in worship.
Scott
Vince Wright
Scott,
I would say that if it troubles you, then by all means, don’t use it or sing it. There is plenty of other songs to choose!
I appreciate your kind words! Thank you for letting me know that my reviews make a difference.
-Vince Wright
Tom
Sorry… but I have to agree with Scott. Over here most people I talked to have a literal understanding of those two lines. I kept saying to people, those two lines are not right, God is omnipresent and is in every believer, but the chorus… now that is correct. This song partly ruined many of my Sunday morning service everytime they decided to sing it. I wish Vince would re-evaluate his take on it or the writer of this beautiful song ought to consider re-writing those lines :). Anyway…. nice website. Keep it up Vince.
Steve Barhydt
Tom,
Vince’s take on this song is spot on perfect and there is nothing wrong or unscriptural about the chorus.
We believe that God is omnipresence!
However, there are times when our perception of His presence is heightened. (Either emotionally or physically Acts 2:1-4, Acts 10:44-47, Acts 11:15-18, Acts 19:5-6) It is this type of experience that the singers of this song are longing for.
Why? Because there is power and sustenance in the presence of God
2 Cor. 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2 Cor. 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Psalm 16:11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.
It is this awareness of the presence of the Holy Spirit that “fills the atmosphere” and is the “evidence” that He is truly among us.
To quote from John Piper, (https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/what-does-it-mean-to-live-in-gods-presence)
So in summary, God is yes, to be sure, omnipresent in some of his influences like his sustaining all things at all times, holding every electron and every sub-nuclear particle in its place. But he makes his influence more manifestly felt and experienced in particular ways and particular times, and this is what we are referring to when we say with the psalmist, “For me it is good to be near God; I have made the Lord my refuge, that I may tell of all your works” (Psalm 73:28). Here is Psalm 145:18: “The Lord is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth.” That doesn’t mean that God traveled some distance. It means he is near in the sense that he exerts his influence for our good in special ways and causes us to experience the sweetness of his reality in special ways.
(End of quote)
Throughout the Bible there are references that indicate both the omnipresence of God and instances of His specific presence…
Quotes are from the KJV unless otherwise referenced
1) In the Garden of Eden (Gen, 3:8) And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
2) Mount Sinai Exo. 19:10-11 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them to day and to morrow, and let them wash their clothes,
And be ready against the third day: for the third day the LORD will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.
3) Entering into the promise land Exo. 33:11-15 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
And Moses said unto the LORD, See, thou sayest unto me, Bring up this people: and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me. Yet thou hast said, I know thee by name, and thou hast also found grace in my sight.
Now therefore, I pray thee, if I have found grace in thy sight, shew me now thy way, that I may know thee, that I may find grace in thy sight: and consider that this nation is thy people
And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest.
And he said unto him, If thy presence go not with me, carry us not up hence.
Skipping ahead to the New Testament…
4) The promise of the Holy Spirit John 14:16-17 ESV And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper,[fn] to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
5) The outpouring of the Holy Spirit Acts 2; Pentecost was unique only in that it was the first time that the Holy Spirit was poured out in this way. It was never meant to be “a singular event in history”
1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 4
31And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
Acts 10
44While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 11
15And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Acts 19
5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
6) The exercise of the Gifts of the Spirit 1 Cor. 14:24-25 ESV But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all,
the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.
I could go on and on but I think that the point is made that although God is omnipresent there is also a palpable presence of God that believers in Him have experienced since the beginning of time.
It is this conspicuous, perceptible presence of God that we long for.
How does one experience this type of the presence of God?
James 4:8a Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.
The phrase “Draw nigh” comes from the Greek eggizō which according to Strong’s Concordance means…
ἐγγίζω engízō, eng-id’-zo; from G1451; to make near, i.e. (reflexively) approach:—approach, be at hand, come (draw) near, be (come, draw) nigh.
David Guzik has a wonderful commentary on this verse (https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/guzik_david/StudyGuide2017-Jam/Jam-4.cfm?a=1150008)
Draw near to God and He will draw near to you: The call to draw near to God is both an invitation and a promise. It is no good to submit to God’s authority and to resist the devil’s attack and then fail to draw near to God. We have it as a promise: God will draw near to us as we draw near to Him.
i. “When a soul sets out to seek God, God sets out to meet that soul; so that while we are drawing near to him, he is drawing near to us.” (Clarke)
ii. What does it mean to draw near to God? Spurgeon considered a few ways:
· It means to draw near in worship, praise, and in prayer.
· It means to draw near by asking counsel of God.
· It means to draw near in enjoying communion with God.
· It means to draw near in the general course and tenor of your life.
iii. In one way, this text illustrates the difference between the old covenant and the new covenant. In the old covenant, God told Moses to not come any closer to the burning bush and take off his shoes. Under the new covenant, God says to the sinner: “Draw near to Me and I will draw near to you.” Now the ground between God and the sinner has been sprinkled with the blood of Jesus, and we can come close to God on the basis of that blood.
iv. This also shows what God wants to do for the sinner. It doesn’t say, “Draw near to God and He will save you” or “Draw near to God and He will forgive you,” though both of those are true. But what God really wants is to be near man; to have a close relationship and fellowship with the individual.
v. From the rest of the chapter we see the results of drawing near to God:
· Drawing near to God helps us to resist the devil.
· Drawing near to God helps us to become pure.
· Drawing near to God helps us to sorrow for sin.
· Drawing near to God helps us to speak well of other people.
· Drawing near to God helps us to think of eternal things.
In conclusion, even though God is everywhere, all the time, there is a special sense of His presence that believer’s can have if they seek for it.
(End of quote)
It is by worship, singing songs such as this one (amongst other things) , that we both prepare ourselves for His presence (“Draw nigh to God”) and invite His presence to be with us (“He will draw nigh”)
Enough about the nature of God’s omnipresence being both simultaneously everywhere and specifically localized, let’s take a closer look the offending phrase “Come flood this place and fill the atmosphere”
The first ting to note is that it does not necessitate a physical manifestation “like some sort of gaseous cloud” (Although you will be hard pressed to find a scripture that says it can’t happen again.) It a more poetic way of saying, as Vince put it, “a request for increased sensitivity of the Holy Spirit’s Presence.”
The concept of the Holy Spirit being like a “Flood” is seen in Isa. 44:3
For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:
Another quote from David Guzik https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/guzik_david/StudyGuide2017-Isa/Isa-44.cfm?a=723003
Fear not … For I will pour water on him … I will pour My Spirit on your descendants: This is a glorious promise to a humble, returning Israel. God will not simply give them His Spirit; He will pour out His Spirit on them as if water was poured over them.
i. This is a freedom in the giving of the Spirit. This is a flow in the giving of the Spirit. This is abundance in the giving of the Spirit. This is an evident giving of the Spirit. God wants to pour His Spirit upon His people! If you experience a few drops, God wants to pour. If you are bone dry, God wants to pour. If you know the pour, God wants to keep pouring! We must learn to stop saying “when” as God pours!
ii. “Without the Spirit of God we can do nothing; we are as ships without wind, or chariots without steeds, like branches without sap, we are withered; like coals without fire, we are useless; as an offering without the sacrificial flame, we are unaccepted. I desire both to feel and to confess this fact whenever I attempt to preach. I do not wish to get away from it, or to conceal it, nor can I, for I am often made to feel it to the deep humbling of my spirit.” (Spurgeon)
iii. “I believe that, at this present moment, God’s people ought to cry to him day and night that there may be a fresh baptism into the Holy Ghost. There are many things that are desirable for the Church of Christ, but one thing is absolutely needful; and this is the one thing, the power of the Holy Ghost in the midst of his people.” (Spurgeon)
iv. Who receives this gift? I will pour water on him who is thirsty. When we are thirsty for the outpouring of the Spirit, ask for it and receive it in faith, we can expect to be poured on. God is looking for dry ground to pour out floods upon!
(End of quote)
What about “atmosphere”?
From the Macmillan Dictionary it can be literal “the air inside a room or other place” or, figurative “the mood or feeling that exists in a place and affects the people who are there”
It is the second definition the songwriter’s are referring to in my opinion. When I’m in a church service, worshiping the Lord, I want the presence of the Holy Spirit to be so real that It changes “mood or feeling that exists in a place” and “affects the people who are there.”
Is this a Biblical concept? Absolutely!
Although I quoted this scripture above, I’m going to do so again 🙂 This time from the NKJV
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Do you want to look and behave more like Jesus? Spend time in the presence of the Holy Spirit.
Woodman
I agree with Scott through Tom’s expansion.
There’s a popular theological bent that believes the Holy Spirit can be enticed to present himself as a cloud or something else physically tangible– and cause emotions and sensations, including the loss of one’s control over their own physical faculties. The words of this song (taken metaphorically) don’t seem to say anything incredible, but “let us become overwhelmed with your presence” and “come flood this place and fill the atmosphere” can go off silently like a dog whistle to those who believe that twisted view.
(Not to mention the double meaning of “your glory God is what our hearts long for”– I note that it could be heard as either “We want to glorify you” or just as easily, “We want to possess your glory”; something that the aforementioned group thinks they can have and should want.)
Straight as the lyrics may be in a vacuum, they also neatly fit a different narrative: “Holy Spirit, please physically arrive here so I can experience your presence with my senses, feel it within my emotions and lose control of my tongue and body– because that is how I will know that you favor my worship.” Or more succinctly, “Holy Spirit, get me high.”
Janet
Bingo! I too do not like the part about “fill the atmosphere” for the very reasons you stated. It’s a beautiful tune but I would not consider it a worship song to God. I think it’s blasphemy to be honest.
loganobaynegurl
It’s more common in Pentecostal/Charismatic type churches to sing about the Holy Spirit. I believe so, at least. I’m in a denomination like that now.
Cody
The other problem I see is that we are singing to welcome the Holy Spirit into our church. I don’t see this as a biblical idea since the Holy Spirit already dwells inside us as believers and does not need welcoming…. Thoughts on this line?
Heather
Cody, As the church I attend played the song this morning, I asked the same question. After not finding the concept in the Bible, I am reading this: https://www.nobts.edu/geauxtherefore/articles/2020/Whatabouttheology.html. A point is made that God initiates worship and we respond, versus us showing up and asking God to join us. And in another point adds that instead of praying for an experience we could pray for the sensitivity to hear God’s voice and the boldness to obey. When I listen to that song I think that instead of welcoming the Holy Spirit, thanking God for His presence and “welcoming” God by meditating on His Word and my obedience.
Steve Barhydt
Heather,
I must disagree with the thought that “God initiates worship and we respond”.
Before I explain why I disagree, we need to define “worship”
*******************Begin Quotes****************
Hebrew https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h7812/kjv/wlc/0-1/
שָׁחָה shâchâh, shaw-khaw’; a primitive root; to depress, i.e. prostrate (especially reflexive, in homage to royalty or God):—bow (self) down, crouch, fall down (flat), humbly beseech, do (make) obeisance, do reverence, make to stoop, worship.
Greek https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g4352/kjv/tr/0-1/
προσκυνέω proskynéō, pros-koo-neh’-o; from G4314 and a probable derivative of G2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand); to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore):—worship.
English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worship#:~:text=4%20Types-,Etymology,its%20simplest%2C%20worth%20to%20something.
The word is derived from the Old English weorþscipe, meaning to venerate “worship, honour shown to an object,[2] which has been etymologised as “worthiness or worth-ship”—to give, at its simplest, worth to something.[3]
*******************End Quote****************
What all of these definitions have in common is the concept of the “worthiness” of something or someone.
At it’s heart, to “worship God” is to put the highest possible worth onto Him. (Granted that it is so much more than this, but this is the starting point. )
From your provided link, I would have the following thought…
The burning bush in Exodus was not a call to worship but a call to service. Other than removing his shoes, Moses did nothing in this passage to worship God. In fact, he argued with Him to the point that God actually gets angry with Moses. (Exodos 4:14)
The only way that I can see that God “initiates” worship is that His goodness and greatness compels us to worship Him. However, the worship comes from us. You are correct that worship is a response but that response must be uncoerced. Otherwise, it would not be true worship but fawning adoration
Over and over again in the Psalms, we are commended to worship God (Psalm 63:1–4,Psalm 103, Psalm 150, etc.), in all of these the praise and worship comes from the individual toward God.
Val
We don’t “welcome the Holy Spirit.” He lives in us. We worship God, in Spirit, through Jesus Christ. The Holy Trinity is present in worship.
Feelings and sensations are not worshiping in Spirit and in Truth. Our mind, thoughts, are to be in God, Who we are adoring and praising.
Hebrews 13:15 “Through Him then, let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that give thanks to His name.”
Steve Barhydt
Val,
With all due respect, it’s not an “either / or” (either God is in us or we welcome Him to come) but a “both / and” (God is both “in us” and can “come upon us”)
Please refer to my lengthy comment given on Sep 15.2020 at 04:26 pm for a Biblical defense on my position.
If you disagree, great. Please offer your refutation, with scriptures, and we can discuss it.
Bronwen Curry
Okay. How in the world are you going to buck up to the point where you think telling The Self Existing One, Who is Yahweh, Who is the Holy Spirit, that He is welcome anywhere? It is us that have been ALLOWED into HIS PRESENCE. Even Solomon, after building the temple, felt the temple in all its splendor was not adequate enough for Him with Yahweh telling He will Place His Presence there. We must be careful on how we allow ourselves to see God. Another part in the song “where my heart become free and my shame is undone. Your Presence, Lord”. It is obedience to The Word of God by Grace through Faith in Yeshua that creates in us a clean heart and renews in us a righr spirit, which takes shame away and fills us with His Joy. There is another deity these people are singing about. This song would not have been sung at the opening of the temple, Mt. Sinai after the law was given, during any of the church services spread throughout the city during the first century church, etc. Holy Spirit You are welcome here. They have some nerve. No matter how you try and explain it. How dare they diminish Yahweh in their mind enough to be convinced that He needs permission. A mess.
Vince Wright
Bronwen,
Great question!
He doesn’t need our permission. That isn’t the point. The point is that we surrender and obedience to His will and desires.
Also, I’ve noticed that God doesn’t dwell within temples made within human hands. He dwells within the hearts and bodies of His people. See Acts 7:48, Acts 17:24-28, and 1 Corinthians 3:16.
Finally, the Old Testament folks wouldn’t have asked on Mt Sinai because God was distant from them. He spoke to His people through prophets. They didn’t have direct access to God like we do under the New Covenant. See Hebrews 4:16 and Hebrews 10:19-22.
-Vince Wright
Steve Barhydt
Bronwen,
I will say the exact same thing to you that I said to Val on Apr 02.2023 | 01:29 pm
*****************Begin Quote**************
With all due respect, it’s not an “either / or” (either God is in us or we welcome Him to come) but a “both / and” (God is both “in us” and can “come upon us”)
Please refer to my lengthy comment given on Sep 15.2020 at 04:26 pm for a Biblical defense on my position.
If you disagree, great. Please offer your refutation, with scriptures, and we can discuss it.
*****************End Quote**************
As an aside, your run-on paragraph makes it very difficult to follow your line of thought.